60mm for macro - restrictions?

[phishphorphun]

Well I am really pleased with my new Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di lens. I'm glad I didn't get the kit lens when I bought the D70, this lens has to be much superior based on what I've seen so far. However for shooting fish I can't get the most out of it with the sb800 because it is too large. Due to its length, when shooting the built-in-the-wall tank, it restricts my optimum distance and angle I need to get the speedlight to fire remotely. I only get about 50% of the captures I'm looking for with the flash. As it turns out, the cheap little 50mm 1.8d lens is the best tool I have for shooting that tank with more consistent success.

With all that said, my desire to get a sharper closeup lens for shooting my show tank has taken a new direction. Originally I was going to add either the 90mm Tamron macro or the 105mm Nikon macro to my collection. Now, I think I can get more use out of the Nikon 60mm f2.8D AF for closeups with the sb800. From what I have researched, it is a super sharp lens and it's compact size would help eliminate my restrictions for shooting closeups with the sb800 set up. Since it is actually too sharp for portrait shots without filtration, it basically would become my prime close up lens for fish pix.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Also, any confirmations to my thinking would be supportive too. :-D

[hir0]

how closeup are we talking? is this going to be exclusively for your aquarium photos? the 90/105 and the 60mm will do 1:1 - just remember that @ 1:1 on the 60mm you will have to be about ~3 inches away. the specs say 8 3/4 in closest focussing distance, just remember that that is from the film/sensor plane and not the front element. not sure about your setup and how that plays into your speedlight positioning. also, i haven't toy'd with a 60mm, but i'm pretty sure the lens grows quite a bit when shooting cloeup.

[phishphorphun]

but i'm pretty sure the lens grows quite a bit when shooting cloeup.

I'm not sure I know what you mean with that statement.

how closeup are we talking? is this going to be exclusively for your aquarium photos?

As close as I can get to capture a 4 to 8 inch fish without cropping. I would probably use it for close up of flowers and non moving objects beside the aquarium photos. But yes, mainly for the aquarium shots.

The dilema is the restrictions I have because of the built-in-the-wall tank. Using larger sized lenses reduces the angle I need to fire the flash when it is on top of the tank. I literally have to get closer to the front glass to get more consistent fires from the remote speedlight. The 50mm allows me more freedom of use to achieve a higher ratio of fires. I only discovered this after using the new 28-75mm. Because it is phyically longer in length, I can't always get the correct angle to fire the flash.

I think Razorblade is experiencing the same restrictions.

The goal that I am trying to achieve is to get sharper shots than the 50mm can offer using the flash setup. I guess the main question would be if there is that noticable a difference between the 50mm 1.8d and the 60mm f2.8d macro when using the speedlight.

[Ibn]

I think what Hir0 is referring to is the extension of the lens when you're focusing with the 60mm. Sort of like the way the Tamron extends when you're zooming, but the micro Nikkors do so when you're focusing (since it's a fixed lens).

I own an older 55mm micro Nikkor, which is sharper than my Tamron 90mm, but the working distance for that lens is really short (you literally have to be right up to the glass). Due to this, the 55mm has been unused for awhile, and most of the macro shots that I've taken has been with the Tamron.

Given the circumstances that you're dealing with, I'd go with the 90 or so range lens (the Nikon is 105mm). You'll get great results out of either of them, but more working distance with something more than 60mm. BTW, Nikon also makes a 85mm macro, which is very nice optically (according to Bjorn, who ranks it higher than either the 55mm or the 105mm Nikkors, which are both very nice IMO).

Here are some shots taken with both the lenses. Both are full frame and uncropped. Both of these fish are a lot smaller than 4-8" Africans (they're at around half that size at 2").

Micro Nikkor 55mm 3.5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/Ibn/DSC_1218a.jpg

Tamron 90mm 2.8
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/Ibn/_DSC2955.jpg

[alanhill]

It's a matter of personal taste - but I want to get the 60mm Nikkor eventually for aquatics in preference to anything longer. It's the equivalent of a 90mm lens on 35mm film, which has always been a favourite of mine. Longer lenses are harder to use IMHO because you have less depth of field and they are larger and harder to hold. I like to have the front of lens close to the glass, I see it as a positive advantage most of the time, it is easier to avoid reflections and I feel that I'm interacting more with the fishes.

Alan

[Andreas Werth]

Hi,
i got my new 60mm three days ago and i really like the results.
Alan, i´m glad to hear that now you want to use your D70 for aquatic photography, too!

The second shot i made with the new lens was this one:
http://www.aquarienfotografie.net/archiv/fotos/7905_800x533.jpg
(don´t mind those jpeg-artefacts)

[phishphorphun]

I'm still of the oppinion that I will be able to use the 60mm with more frequent success than the 90 or 105mm.

IBN, your shots are both fine, but I don't think you addressed my dilema of the difficulty created by the wall and flash.

Allan, your logic leans more to my thinking as well.

And Andreas, your peacock is very vivid with color. I'm curious how close you were to the glass when you made that shot.

[Andreas Werth]

And Andreas, your peacock is very vivid with color. I'm curious how close you were to the glass when you made that shot.
10 cm? The peacock was very close to the glass as well.

[benny]

If you are using wireless remote flash and want to ensure that it triggers even when you are further away (using the 90/105 mm), you just need to add two mirrors infront of your tank when shooting. It will ensure that the flash fires 100% of the time.

Cheers,

[phishphorphun]

Benny, where were you when I first discussed this problem :eek:

I can't believe I never thought of the mirrors before. You say two. I guess one located on each side of the tank to reflect towards the sb800.

I'll talk to you all later. I've got to run out and get a couple mirrors :-D

[benny]

Sorry. Must have missed this or perhaps the replies did not go through. I did recall vaguely having replied to one f these problem quite a while back.

Anway, one mirror will be placed facing you below the tank. It will be used as a reverse reflector. The other will back facing the front mirror, be angled 45 degrees to reflect the signal back to the top.

Have fun!

Cheers,

[phishphorphun]

Benny, thanks a lot for the mirror suggestion. I probably missed the last time you posted it. Anyway, I can shoot with the front of the 28-75mm zoom lens about 18" from the glass now. As long as I'm in the set up zone, I can shoot using the commander ittl mode too. Oh, and I discovered that I can just sit the mirrors on the ledge of the frame. Like this...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/phishphorphun/a1mirrors.jpg

And you can see the flash fired in these shots...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/phishphorphun/a3mirrors.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/phishphorphun/a2mirrors.jpg

I will set these up every time I shoot with the sb800 on the other side of the wall now. Thanks again.

[hir0]

interesting info. Benny, you're a genius. When can i buy your book on aquarium photography and lighting! :)

[phishphorphun]

interesting info. Benny, you're a genius.

hir0, you are right-on...again. The man is going to become a legend in aquatic photography techniques before he is old enough to forget how he does it :-D As he says, "it's not about settings, it's about the set-up".

[benny]

Guys! You flatter me but I'm not deserving of such a title.

Nothing I say or do is exclusively developed by myself. Most of it are just techniques from regular photography sessions (especially on portraiture).

As you guys are aware by now, every tank and every fish is different, that's why every setup is different. There's no hard and fast rule. The secret is light, and how to get enough of it to where you want it to be, when you want it to be. The rest is automatic (except the focusing, which I still prefer manual).

Cheers,

p.s. As for the book, I'm seriously thinking about it. Maybe just a fishy pics pictorial rather than a technical manual as I can't write to save my life.

[Ibn]

Good stuff there, Benny. Let me know when the book is out and I'll be the first in line! Of course, I'll pick up two copies, one of which will need your signature, haha.

[paradise]

lol, benny is so modest :) :) I know better :) He's full of tricks, 3 days were not enough to even scratch the surface.

[RazorBlade]

Benny, thanks for sharing the tip on the mirrors! Sounds cool! :)