350 niggles

[clippo]

Ok - got my 350D but I have to say I am less than impressed by a few things:

1. the battery indicator really is useless - on my Sony 717, it actually counted down in minutes how long was left and was very accurate - the Canon one is less advanced than my 10 yr old sony walkman - only indicates full or nearly empty! - doesn't anyone else think this?

2. Whats the deal with the image downloading? - when the battery is 'nearly empty', images won't download - I just get a message saying camera has powered down (camera is still on though saying 'busy')

3. Linked with the above there is no AC adapter supplied.

4. Its not possible (unless I am mistaken!) to select multiple images in playback mode and delete as a batch - this means you have to go through each one repeating the delete procedure - I find this annoying - surely this is a pretty basic function that should have been included!

5. Linked to above, trimming is not possible on-camera so you can't free-up memory card space - has to be done in software.

6. Obviously using a dslr is a different ballgame to a prosumer and I knew this before I got it, but not having an LCD for composing a shot, and particularly one that can be angled is a real pain! I find that my face touches the screen and thus requires frequent cleaning (the screen that is!) - plus it gives me eye-ache after long periods of shooting - plus you can't get some of the more 'creative' angles with it..... I know this may be contradicted by many users on here, but personally I find this stifles creativity and makes composition needlessly difficult......

As mentioned I really am disappointed in it and I feel loathed to throw more money at it just to sort basic problems - thats even before getting a decent lens!

I am awaiting the launch of the Fuji s9000 - IMO dslrs aren't all they are cracked up to be! :'(

[phishphorphun]

Hey friend, before you get too frustrated, give it a chance. I too, was disappointed in some of the spoiled luxuries associatied with non DSLR cams when I first got my D70. But I got over it in about two weeks when I started making captures that were impossible with the Kodak.

I'm a Nikon guy so I am going to address your issues generally. Hopefully a Canon user can be more explicit.

1. Always have a spare battery ready. What's the big deal.

2. Refer to above.

3. I have the AC adapter. Never used it once (refer to #1)

4. Actually I prefer deleting each shot individually. Gives me a second chance to see if there is good one among the mess. But, I'm surprised you can't delete multiples though.

5. Why can't you trash what you don't want to free up space?

6. Getting use to looking through the viewfinder will take some time. Especially if you are coming from digital p&s camera work. Actually you will find that you will get more accurate shots by using the VF menu while composing. Having your eye on the camera gives a feeling of being in the frame of the capture. I can be more creative with my eye making contact as it eliminates much of the peripheral distractions. As for the smudges on the lcd. My D70 came with a soft plastic cover that hasn't been off the lcd since I got the camera. Perhaps this is an accessory you can get for your 350D.

Be patient. I haven't met anyone wanting to go back to p&s after getting familiar with their dslr. :-D

[clippo]

OK - the battery and indicator is the main problem really. For the money I really would have expected something better. I am surprised none of the reviewers have picked this up.... if it had a decent indicator, I wouldn't need to buy/carry a spare battery! - then there's the AC adapter - the reason I mention this is because of the problem I had with the downloading. Basically, if the indicator is not showing 'full', the images won't download - is this a bug? - don't tell me the 20D is like this too?! As for deleting images, freeing up space etc - I guess this is down to the way I use the cam. I have like 2 hours to get 35 shots processed and ready for uploading (if I want any spare time on my weekend!) so i really need something that is geared towards speed and ease of use, rather than detail.

The more I think about it, the more ripped-off I feel.

anyway, I'll give it another few weeks - not read a review of the S9000 yet anyway, but I like the spec. 9mp and comes with a 20-300mm lens for £100 less than the 350.

[Ibn]

I'm quite puzzled by the not downloading part if the battery isn't at full charge. I have yet to read about that anywhere, but I don't own one of these and have not been looking at this issue if there was one. Downloading 35 images shouldn't be a problem. Those batteries last forever since they aren't used to power LCDs up. I'm consistently getting 600+ pictures with the ones for my D70 and that's with AF-C on continuously (1k+ snaps without enabling AF-C). I've also downloaded an entire 2 GB card off my camera (358 RAW pictures). I've heard about similar numbers for the Canon batteries. You can also try a multicard reader. I've been using one for awhile now since the D70 isn't USB 2.0...

I'd give it a bit more time and read about the Fuji S9000 when it is available, but I would spend more time reading up and playing around with your 350D.

Here's a few facts to consider regarding the two. The sensor size on P&S cameras are about half the size of a DSLR, so that 9 megapixels that they're referring to isn't all that it's marketed to be. As for that lens, is that 35mm equivalent? If it is, it's basically the same thing as a 12.5-187.5mm lens on the Canon platform due to the 1.6 cropping factor. Canon doesn't make a 12.5mm on the wide end but they do have a 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6 in their arsenal (Tamron, Tokina, and Sigma also have similar lens for the Canon mount).

[paradise]

Well, this is something you hear a lot from a new DSLR User. You have to realize that the technology is completely different, and some features are just NOT available.

I have never had a problem with a battery on my 20d. But it's so easy to charge, or get another one for $35 and have a back up.

I never EVER download from the camera. Why would you do it? It makes no sense. $14.99 card reader plugged into your USB port does it faster, without any chance of any electrical connection to your camera. Why take the risk? Remove the card, put it in, a window shows up on your screen as another drive, do whatever, save to Hard drive if you wish. Simple. You can also view files if you have the RAW support if you shoot raw or JPGs all the time. Look through them, delete the bad ones, put back into the cam, keep shooting.

And, yeah, in the beginning it's hard to shoot w/out LCD, but that is the consumer cam user in you talking. It's the same for everyone first few weeks. Now, I can't use a consumer cam any more by looking at the screen, I still use the viewfinder. So much more natural.

Trust me, reserve feedback till you give it a good chance.

[hir0]

a dSLR is less about convenience and more about versatility and quality. there's no movie modes or capturing video stills - but in time, if you give it a chance, you will realize that you have a much much better tool for taking photographs. congrats on your new acquisition.

[clippo]

are you saying there a risk to the camera in using a USB cable? - I wasn't aware of this. I don't see why I should need to go and spend more money just to get a basic function like downloading images to work properly - from this brand and at at this price I expected a lot more. If the USB cable is no good, then why even supply it? (I have used readers in the past - I though USB was supposed to be better?!)

As for the technology being different - well of course it is! - however, the purpose of the camera is the same. As for dslrs being more versatile and creative etc, from a composition point, I don't see how this can be true. If its a matter of composing a shot through a viewfinder rather than on a screen, well I think that is just techological snobbery. For a start, you can use the viewfinder as well as the LCD on most prosumers as you mention - plus there's the obvious failiure of the dslr to provide for shooting overhead or low angle (unless..surprise surprise, you buy the special adapter! :rolleyes: ). Really, the more I think about it, the less the 'composing through the viewfinder' argument stands up - I mean if you are saying its harder to compose using a dslr, then this contradicts the idea that a dslr is more versatile and creative. If you are saying it is easier, then surely shots taken with a prosumer should be given more credence.... if its just about thinking about composition, then surely its nothing to do with the camera at all!

At the end of the day, my camera is just a tool which I use as a means of taking shots which supplement my income, and having used many cameras over the years, I can't help but feel that the hype surrounding this format really isn't justified (unless you spend a lot more - although if I had spent twice as much on a basic 20D I really would be truly p*ss*d off:lol: ). There's no way you can defend the lack of attention payed to basic things like battery indicators and playback functions - I mean - how can these things be overlooked by reviewers? If it was a prosumer, these things would have been jumped on immediately! All I can think is that maybe the majority of people who use the model use it for leisure rather than serious work and thus these seemingly small problems are 'overlooked'....

PS - I have since noticed a few other things. Firstly, the LCD doesn't seem to have any anti-reflective coating or protection - camera body plastic is extremely low grade plastic - shutter is very noisy and disturbs sensitive subjects.... just beggars belief really! :'(

Anyway - thanks for all your feedback guys. You never know, the s9000 may be useless and I may end up stuck with this model until I learn to accept it.

[hir0]

well, sorry to hear you feel like you made a mistake. i hope you give your new camera a chance. as for the cable, it would be fine to use. i use a card reader, just because it can be left connected to my computer at all times. having been on both sides of the fence (p&s and dSLR) i can honestly say there is pros and cons to both. it really depends on what your application is.

[marc]

James,

A few points..

1) Re the battery life, as per phishforfun I'd suggest a spare just in case. I gotta say tho that I think the 350 battery has excellent life. I've not timed it but it seems to go on forever, obviously life will be shortened when using the flash as I guess most of us do on this forum but even then I find it very impressive. I used it for about 6 hrs straight at Silverstone on Saturday with no signs of fading. I agree it's either full or empty but this is where having a spare comes in. What's better if your in the middle of shooting for a client and the battery dies, having to pack up and go home or switch battery ?

2) Cant say I've had problems with this. Cant comment.

3) Re AC power source. Never had one with my Fuji 602 and in all honesty cant say I have ever wished I had one.

4) Re the image selection, I cant find that option either but it doesnt bother me. I usually fill a card and download the whole lot to the laptop. I select the keepers from this...I get a much better idea of quality of shots when its on a 17" monitor.

5) Re trimming. I'm not sure if my 602 had this ( I think it did) but I never used it. IMO/IME its better to do all the post processing in PS or similar software.

6) Re LCD. I'm a bit lost why you think the shoot using the LCD is a major gain. I can appreciate its maybe usefull if you are say for example in a crowd of people and want to be able to frame your shot whilst holding the camera above head hight but beyond this cant see a major advantage.
If it makes you feel any better..I get eye ache too. I put it down to only recenlty having to use the eyepiece. Adjustment on my part, it's getting easier although people think I'm winking at them :D

At the end of the day, my camera is just a tool which I use as a means of taking shots which supplement my income, and having used many cameras over the years, I can't help but feel that the hype surrounding this format really isn't justified (unless you spend a lot more - although if I had spent twice as much on a basic 20D I really would be truly p*ss*d off ). There's no way you can defend the lack of attention payed to basic things like battery indicators and playback functions - I mean - how can these things be overlooked by reviewers? If it was a prosumer, these things would have been jumped on immediately! All I can think is that maybe the majority of people who use the model use it for leisure rather than serious work and thus these seemingly small problems are 'overlooked'....

PS - I have since noticed a few other things. Firstly, the LCD doesn't seem to have any anti-reflective coating or protection - camera body plastic is extremely low grade plastic - shutter is very noisy and disturbs sensitive subjects.... just beggars belief really!


I feel you need to give this camera much more of a chance than you already have, IIRC it's only about 2 weeks old. Maybe the reviewers didnt find an 'issue' with battery life ? Anti reflective LCD... pretty sure yuo can buy a cover for this purpose, harking back to the 602..this sure didnt have one. Possibly most users are happy to snap away with a large CF card a check the results when they get home not on the viewfinder ? The plastic body had been mentioned in reviews and I'm sure you read about this before purchase, its just a way for Canon to promote the next model up with a metal/alloy body. Car manufactures do it all the time...basic model with plastic hub caps, next model in the range with alloy wheels, you know how it goes with these things. Noisy shutter...not IMO/IME.

To me it appears that you made up your mind to not like the DSLR's before you got one, your thread on UR was (IMO) itended to demonstrate that DSLR's where not justified where a prosumer model could allegedly acheive the same results. The fact that you purchased the 350 after looking at the comparisons posted suggests that you found a good argument put forward for the DSLR's case.

I just feel you need to give it more time...no offence intended :)

[clippo]

Hi Marc - nice to see you on here finally. Anyone else form UR care to join in?

With regard to the battery, if you look more closely at my first post, I think you'll find that battery life isn't a problem indeed I agree its very good. The main problem is that there is no way of knowing, other than experience, how long you have left when the battery is indicating nearly empty - it doesn't even flash until its completely dead. Fair enough a spare battery isn't expensive and is a complete solution, however, I still think its pretty lame on this level of camera. I think its just a way of making more profit on the unit by the manufacturer! - thats the point I am trying to make.

I find it interesting that you haven't had the download problem that I have - possibly something in the software? - If you had encountered this problem when you needed to get lots of images downloaded, and then discovered there was no alternative but to flatten the battery (overnight) and recharge it just to get the images down, you may be in a better position to comment. ;)

With regard to deleting/trimming in playback, as I mentioned, possibly you have more time and equipment to process your pics and therefore it may not be a problem - for you. Linked to this is the use of the viewfinder - I don't know how you have your tanks set-up, but where I shoot using the viewfinder is extremely difficult in certain situations - this not only limits creativity, but for me, makes standard shooting difficult - no question!. (as en example, say someone wants some top down shots of some corals in the centre of a wide shallow tank..... with my sony this would not have been a problem, but with the canon - impossible). The problem is exascerbated by the eye-cup being far too close to the camera body as I mentioned - its even possible to press buttons by accident with your nose! :redface: - fair enough I should have thought of this before hand!

With regard to the anti-reflective coating, you say yourself that the 602 didn't have one.... well there you go! - I would have thought for the money Canon would have been able to top this by putting one on what is marketed as a semi-pro camera! - in bright day/sunlight its next to useless!

With regard to my thread on UR, it was intended as I stated - to compare macro performance between the two kinds - prosumer and dslr - which it achieved pretty well (over 5000 views and 240 responses!). I'm not sure why you think I have some kind of hidden agenda to discredit all dslrs! -I really did it as there were a few people asking what camera to buy and several members were simply making broad statements like 'oh go and get a 20D they are the best' without even having posted any images. FWIW from some of the shots (not many though!) the dlsr did look better in terms of image quality (marginally) and I did acknowledge this - its a shame that only a couple of people were using anything other than the standard lens though (which again seems to be pretty inadequate for aquatic photography!). Although the thread did touch on cost v quality, its a shame that wno-ione though to mention functionality as these are the problems that I am obviously now having. Believe me I wish I was happy with the camera, but unlike some, I won't attempt to justify a poor purchasing decision if it doesn't merit so (FWIW I did rush into buying it a bit to get it at a good price, but it did represent a large outlay for me and I had to justify this long and hard not only to myself, but also my wife). I find it bizarre that everyone else seems happy to 'make-do' seemingly just because its a 'dslr'.... going back to the thread on UR, it did at least stimulate some discussion on the subject which is what I hope to achieve here too... I mean, it would be nice to be able to sort some problems, but all that is being recommended so-far is 'buy this, buy that'....

I find it interesting that you seem to be having oversaturation problems with the camera too - if I may link to you flame shot as an example?
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46956 (Ultimatereef)
I too expereinced the same problem when shooting my flame even with the relevant parameters turned down a notch... surely this shouldn't be a problem with this kind of camera?

I really don't think giving it more time will help as I have now used its main purpose and its not really up to the job IMO - I don't think its construction will bear the test of time well either (unless you only use it for leisure). I think the only think that really will help is throwing more money at it - and I feel stupid that I have fallen into this trap (having recently written an article on the subject!).

Anyway, you can certainly do the marketing for me when I try to sell it!

PS - it's John, not James :rolleyes:

[c75mitch]

I find it interesting that you haven't had the download problem that I have - possibly something in the software? - If you had encountered this problem when you needed to get lots of images downloaded, and then discovered there was no alternative but to flatten the battery (overnight) and recharge it just to get the images down, you may be in a better position to comment. ;)


This is a problem that I have never encountered either. I have had my 350 for about 4 months now and have taken just over 6500 shots all which I have downloaded to my pc without problem weather the battery is on 1 bar or full.

Are you sure you have setup the camera properly? in the menu there is the option for output to printer or PC if you have it set to printer you may experience problems.

[clippo]

This is a problem that I have never encountered either. I have had my 350 for about 4 months now and have taken just over 6500 shots all which I have downloaded to my pc without problem weather the battery is on 1 bar or full.

Are you sure you have setup the camera properly? in the menu there is the option for output to printer or PC if you have it set to printer you may experience problems.

Nice to see you signing up Mitch - cheers for that, I'll have a check.

[Ibn]

Interesting to hear some of the comments that you have listed (i.e. build quality, no antireflective screen, oversaturation, etc.). Those were actually some of the reasons why I chose to go with the D70 versus the 300D, but we'll leave it at that. As for image quality difference between a prosumer vs. DSLR, you won't really see a difference from images placed on the web since they're quite small. View it on a large screen TV or try blowing the image up and print it out. Do the comparison between the two and you'll see what the difference in the chip size equates to. If you don't print large pictures or view them on larger screens, then you probably won't notice the difference.

As for pro-quality, the 350D isn't actually in Canon's pro-class of cameras. The one digit model cameras (e.g. 1DII) are the flagship of Canon and are considered their pro-class. Their two digit cameras (e.g. 10D, 20D) are one step below that and their three digit models (300D and 350D) anchor their lineup.

In terms of versatility and creative, I think the definition there needs to be refined. For instance, it doesn't pertain to being able to take shots in the middle of the tank by flipping the LCD (none of the DSLRs will do so and I would use your prosumer to take shots such as those). To me it's the ability to manually control basically all the things which ends up being in the photograph, from the lighting to DOF and so on.

[Dracofish]

As for image quality difference between a prosumer vs. DSLR, you won't really see a difference from images placed on the web since they're quite small. View it on a large screen TV or try blowing the image up and print it out. Do the comparison between the two and you'll see what the difference in the chip size equates to. If you don't print large pictures or view them on larger screens, then you probably won't notice the difference.


I was about to say the same thing. Also, the one thing I absolutely couldn't stand about the Sony DSC-F707 that I used to use (as I'm sure is the same with most other ZLR's or P&S's) is the shutter lag and recovery time to take another picture, especially when using flash. Ask many of the people on this board. I used to post tons of pictures with the 707 and I took that camera to a place nobody thought it could be taken. BUT, I like the results I'm getting with my Canon 20D better. Granted it took me a long time to get used to the camera and the pictures that I took with it in the beginning weren't as good as the ones I got with the Sony. But now after a few months I'm getting to the point where my abilities with it are getting better and I can do so much more in terms of image quality and versatility with the DSLR. Honestly, the only thing I miss about the electronic viewfinder was being able to hold the camera over my head to take a picture. It was tough getting used to the TTL viewing with the DSLR. You have to picture in your head what the image is going to look like after the white balance adjustment, shutter speed, and aperture, etc. With the electronic viewfinder, that's all done for you. I know it's tough...but believe me, it gets easy after a while. After using the DSLR, I was forced to learn how to anticipate what shutter speeds and apertures to use. I'm now getting pretty good at getting it right pretty quick. The funny thing is that I used to have an argument similar to yours before I got my Canon. Boy did my tune change, lol.

Battery life is so not an issue. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've had to recharge the battery of my 20D and I use it a lot. I got it in Feb (I think). The batteries last forever. With the Sony, I was lucky to get a couple hours, and heaven forbid I use flash.

I have a USB cable that came with my camera, but it's USBII, which my computer doesn't support. I have a multi-port Scandisk card reader that supports four different types of media. I'm very happy with that. $19.99 at Best Buy.

Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with P&S cameras. I still recommend the Sony 707 and 717 to anyone that doesn't want to spend a lot of money (they were $1,000 when they were new a few years ago and can be found still in the box on Ebay for about $400). They're also great for people that want to take pics of their kids or even fish and don't need to make big prints. Hell, I made some 8" prints with my 707 and they came out pretty good! Professional quality? No, but still damn good! I recommend the camera a lot because many people are still buying from the P&S market.

[paradise]

Clippo, I am trying to figure this out. It seems like you are trying to apply P&S sensibilities to a camera that is "supposed to be" for professional applications. Granted, I am a Canon guy, but I have very vocally shown my Dislike for the 350D, for many reasons, the biggest being that it has a tiny plastic body, which to me seems anti climactic. If you are buying DSLR you should not want Plastic OR small. I bought a grip for my 20D to make it bigger (did not even get the 2nd battery). So, Ithink 350D is a failed attempt by Canon to attract P&S users, which they have succeeded in doing to you :)

I think you have to completely switch your thinking when you get a DSLR, if you can not, you will never enjoy it. It's not a casual "tourist" cam, it's one that gives you TOTAL 100% control of your shots. Like others said, yeah you could use those features, but most would never use them.

1. Editing in camera - WHY? most of us have bigger Memory cards and prefer to use Photoshop to using the tiny LCD.
2. Downloading - WHY? I usually have 3 memory cards w/me, and use all three on a good shoot, so why should I put them back in and download, when a $14.99 reader does it TWICE faster and safer.
3. LCD - another why. if you are trying to get Great quality stuff, you should be thinking composition, lighting and all other stuff. You should setup your tank to be able to do photography. We talk a lot on here about Proper setups, preparing your tanks, thinking ahead of time about photography. If you have a DSLR I assume you want to be serious about taking those photographs. If you properly setup your tank, you should NEVER EVER have awkward setups where you would have to hold it in a weird uncomfortable position to need the LCD. I think the viewfinder gives you a much better view of what you are shooting.

ANother point, shooting through viewfinder is also a stabilizing point for your shot. If you are holding your camera that way with your eye on the viewfinder you should be more comfortable than holding it in your extended hands which is required if you want to look at the LCD. with a bigger body and lens, that is a situation where you will have shake, all the time. Your hands are just not that steady when you are extending. By holding it close to your face, you are in a much better position to have less shake, it's propped on your hands and against your face.

Like many have said, it's a different mentality, but you dont see too many people jump back to P&Ss once they figure out the true power and meaning of DSLR. Give it time :)

[hir0]

i remember the days when Melissa was die hard sony and would defend it to her grave. and i have to admit, she delivered some nice crisp shots with the thing. i also remember a thread Ed posted about trading his (now former) 300d to go back to a Sony! so, being in the same position - switching from sony to canon - Melissa and Ed can actually speak from experience when they say they made a step in the RIGHT direction moving up to dSLR. i agree with Ed, just give it a chance. i believe CDM has both. I haven't seen many sony images from him lately tho.

[paradise]

Damn, I knew someone would bring up that thread of me crying about hating DSLRs :)

Yeah, that was a long time ago. I am on my 2nd DSLR now. :) My mom asked me to use her tiny P&S to take some pics, and they were laughing at me looking at the viewfinder, the whole cam was smaller than my battery on 20D :) I looked very awkward with that thing on my face. But I just could not do it any other way. Pathetic.

[clippo]

Damn, I knew someone would bring up that thread of me crying about hating DSLRs :)

Yeah, that was a long time ago. I am on my 2nd DSLR now. :) My mom asked me to use her tiny P&S to take some pics, and they were laughing at me looking at the viewfinder, the whole cam was smaller than my battery on 20D :) I looked very awkward with that thing on my face. But I just could not do it any other way. Pathetic.


cheers to everyone who has posted here - you have made me feel a lot better - thanks for the support. I guess I am not the first to feel this way. Interesting that other people felt so affectionate about the Sony, and I can relate to this totally (used the 717).

At the end of the day, I think a lot of this stuff is specific to me really - what I use my camera for. I hesitate to say it, but some of the time I really have to make compromises in shooting due to prevailing conditions, and I guess the Sony was a great nurse-maid for this.

Actually, I feel stupid about this, but Mitch was spot-on with the output to PC problem - its sorted now, and I guess this resolves several issues straight (but not the cr*ppy battery indicator!)

I agree about the Sony flash too - I have just tried using the canon with flash for the first time and (I am going to have to eat my words here aren't I?).. I'm liking them!

http://aquatic-photography.com/forum/showthread.php?p=33961#post33961 (recent flash shots)

[c75mitch]

Glad you got the download problem sorted

[elTwitcho]

If its a matter of composing a shot through a viewfinder rather than on a screen, well I think that is just techological snobbery. For a start, you can use the viewfinder as well as the LCD on most prosumers as you mention - plus there's the obvious failiure of the dslr to provide for shooting overhead or low angle (unless..surprise surprise, you buy the special adapter! :rolleyes: ). Really, the more I think about it, the less the 'composing through the viewfinder' argument stands up - I mean if you are saying its harder to compose using a dslr, then this contradicts the idea that a dslr is more versatile and creative. If you are saying it is easier, then surely shots taken with a prosumer should be given more credence.... if its just about thinking about composition, then surely its nothing to do with the camera at all!

I think everyone already covered the whole "it's wierd now but give it time" angle so I'm not really going to comment on that but it is something you shouldn't overlook.

Hoooowever, I think you're missing a few key differences between a viewfinder and rear LCD if you're not seeing any advantages to a viewfinder. Yes an LCD is easier, sure, fair cool I can agree with that. That about ends where it is better than a viewfinder though. They're not very good in sunlight, they lag and blur with motion (try a panning shot with an LCD waiting for your subject to come into focus sometime) and they aren't as sharp as a viewfinder. The difference between looking through a lense and looking at a pixelated representation is the difference between knowing if your shot is perfectly in focus or not. I've used an LCD and I was never really able to tell if the shot was perfectly in focus or not because the resolution isn't there on the screen and quite honestly finding out once you download your pictures off your camera doesn't exactly seem like a fair compromise to me. There's also the obvious advantage of shooting from a stable position with the viewfinder to your eye and the camera supported against your body than the "floting in front of you" stance when you're looking through an LCD. Try it with a shutter speed slightly lower than your focal length and you'll see the difference a stable position makes.

As for "if the viewfinder is so good I can use it on my 707 as well" argument I don't really subscribe to that. That viewfinder to my knowledge is seperate from the lense and suffers from paralax error doesn't it? That's not a good system in my eyes when at this level of photography you're looking for perfection, not "good enough" results.

I'm not trying to argue a "better" way of doing things, every system is going to have it's pros and cons but in this case I really think you haven't given enough thought to the pros of looking through a viewfinder and are seeing only the cons. Give it time, you'll start to see the improvements over things you really couldn't do before.

[Dracofish]

Actually, the viewfinder on the 707 was an LCD...just inside the eyepiece and smaller than the one on the back of the camera. It looked the same, pixellated the same, lagged the same, etc. What you see isn't directly through the lens with a mirror like with a SLR. It's an electronically created image.

[clippo]

fair points both of those last comments, but if its a stationary object such as a coral (which is what I am concerned with), surely none of those factors (lag/blur) make a significant difference to actually composing the shot even if it is electronically created? (also resolution/playback zoom used to review shots on certain dslrs are similar tio, or even less than, those on prosumers)

[paradise]

actually with corals, as everything else, you want to be able to see if you are focused 100% or just off. There is no way LCD will show that. NO WAY. I will look through the viewfinder and will focus and then rock back and forth to achieve that "finer" focus. And still I can not do it everytime, because I move involuntarily as anyone does, I breathe, and because of other factors. So, sitting with extended hands and lcd in front of you, you are CONSTANTLY moving in and out of focus. There is a huge difference.

[hir0]

tripod! :)

[clippo]

tripod! :)

well exactly - oh, just thought I better mention that I found a way around the lack of a batch deletion function in playback. Instead, protect the keepers then delete all - pretty simple really and I should have realised ages ago..... surprised no-one else did!

[Dracofish]

I love the dial on the back of the 20D. You can cycle through pics fast and trash the ones you want quick. I only trash the ones I know are total trash because it's tough to tell when you might get a great shot out of one that's not so great by cropping only one aspect out. You can't see this on an LCD. You can blow stuff up but it's not that great.

[Gordeez]

Well, I just jumped in to thje DSLR world. Bough the 350 XT as well. And its ALOT Different. I was kinda Bummed out at first, but now, Im kinda getting the hang of it. Still aLong way to go. But so far so good man. You oughta just keep trying it out for a While, See if it gets any better for you.

[meriadoc]

actually with corals, as everything else, you want to be able to see if you are focused 100% or just off. There is no way LCD will show that. NO WAY. I will look through the viewfinder and will focus and then rock back and forth to achieve that "finer" focus. And still I can not do it everytime, because I move involuntarily as anyone does, I breathe, and because of other factors. So, sitting with extended hands and lcd in front of you, you are CONSTANTLY moving in and out of focus. There is a huge difference.


two words ed : macro rail!!!

but apart from that, i'm staying out of the rest of the debate :)

[hir0]

sorry to dig up an old thread, but if you do not like using a viewfinder you could look into one of these (http://www.zigview.co.uk/)